The Morning Formation (TMF) Podcast
The Morning Formation Podcast is your go-to source for in-depth discussions on modern tactics, hand-to-hand combat, leadership, lifestyle, and compelling storytelling. Hosted by KP Phillips, a combat military veteran and former first responder who served as an instructor in tactics, firearms, and combative techniques, the podcast delivers expert insights and real-life experiences that empower and educate listeners.
Whether you're a military professional, a martial arts enthusiast, or someone interested in leadership and personal growth, The Morning Formation Podcast offers valuable content that resonates. Join us as we explore the dynamic world of tactical training and leadership through engaging stories and expert interviews.
Additionally, the podcast features veteran and first responder-owned businesses and products, showcasing the entrepreneurial spirit and innovations within these communities.
The Morning Formation (TMF) Podcast
ANE & TMF Podcast: Overcoming Self-Doubt in Your Civilian Job Search
Unlock the secrets to a seamless military-to-civilian career transition with insights from KP, the dynamic host of the Morning Formation podcast. Learn about his compelling journey from military service to civilian employment and the hard lessons he learned about the importance of strategic career planning. KP shares the pitfalls of relying solely on military accolades and advanced degrees, emphasizing the need for humility, thorough preparation, and the ability to translate military experience into civilian terms.
Struggling with imposter syndrome? You're not alone. In this episode, we tackle the pervasive challenge of self-doubt that many veterans face during their transition. KP and our team discuss the delicate balance between humility and self-advocacy in job searches. Discover strategies for recognizing your value, effectively communicating your military experiences, and the importance of rehearsing your narrative to resonate with civilian employers. We also critique the shortcomings of military transition programs like TAPS and highlight the necessity of a well-thought-out plan.
Finally, we stress the value of early and strategic preparation to ensure a successful transition from military to civilian life. Through personal anecdotes, KP underscores the stressors of having a fixed end date and the challenge of securing multiple job offers. We discuss how to set realistic expectations, align career goals, and be flexible with initial career choices to alleviate stress. Our goal is to motivate you to take your transition seriously and set yourself up for long-term career success. Join us for actionable advice and insights that can pave the way for a smooth and successful career transition.
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Episode Powered By Act Now Education
Today's episode is a collaboration between TMF Podcast and ActNow Education's Mastermind Program. I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone. It's Nicole from ActNow Education and we are here helping you prepare for your next transition on the way to a career within the civilian world. One of the things that we've been doing is preparing you through a mastermind, taking you through several weeks of preparation, getting your mindset in order, understanding your goals, getting your resume, your LinkedIn profile all of these things necessary and we're all going to talk about preparation. We're going to talk about different topics. There's only so much we can do within our mastermind and we're all going to talk about preparation. We're going to talk about different topics. There's only so much we can do within our mastermind.
Speaker 2:So we're having these extra recorded sessions so that you can gain more insights listening to other people's stories, hearing their strategies and really, at the end of the day, collecting bits and pieces of information so that you can create your own transition plan successfully. Today, I have the absolute pleasure of chatting with KP, who is the Morning Formation podcast host, and this is extra special because now, instead of KP interviewing, I have the honor of interviewing KP and listening to his insights valuable insights that he will share specifically to transitioning. So we have a good session here, getting you some real talk, real conversation on some of these very, very important topics. So welcome KP and, if you can do, a quick introduction of yourself.
Speaker 1:Dr Don Raj, it is such an honor to be chatting with you on this lovely Friday night. Yeah, so I've been a board member with Act Now Education for what? About two years now? I think More so than being the host of the Morning Formation podcast. I think I'm much more, I guess, honored to be a part of this circle of folks like Dr Don Rajazin with ACNO Education and everyone out there who's listening or watching this right now.
Speaker 1:So I actually joined the military through the Army National Guard. I enlisted and then did four years there, then got commissioned and went active duty into the Army during a time of war, ended up serving in Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2004, 2005,. Walked away from that deployment with a bronze star. Right after coming back from deployment, got my master's degree, got out as an O-3 captain and thought the world was at my fingertips, Thought that I was going to get all types of opportunities thrown at my feet and it was just going to be an easy time. And I learned the hard way. And that's why we're here today, because I am one of those statistical veterans that quit my first job after the military. I think it's what over 70% of military folks quit their first job after serving, and so I was one of those folks, and that's why we're here today is I'm here to share my story and underline the importance of why you need to be prepared.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So thanks for sharing that, kp, and one of the key things that you would hear me teaching about all the time is strategically planning your career. I cannot say that over and over, right Understanding where you want to go, where you are right now and fill in the gaps. So, kp, how did you plan your transition? Did you actually have a plan?
Speaker 1:No, I did not have a plan, I was just motivated. So I, literally after deployment, somebody had mentioned to me that when I was going to be getting out I'd be competing with some of the academy graduates. So Naval Academy West Point, and I was just a gritty green to gold. Smp Army ROTC commissioned officer. Smp Army ROTC commissioned officer.
Speaker 1:So, thinking that to myself, as soon as I got back from deployment I immediately hit the books and I went to the education center and I got my graduate's degree. I got my master's degree in organizational leadership through Central Michigan University, right there on Schofield Barracks in Hawaii. So I spent a lot of my Go Field Barracks in Hawaii. So I spent a lot of my weekends sitting in a classroom instead of surfing. And my plan was I was kind of sort of running fast in a direction, but it wasn't in a and I guess in any kind of pointed direction. I didn't know what I was doing, I was just doing it.
Speaker 1:So that was my plan was just to get educated. And I guess I thought when I got out, having all the accolades that I had earned you know, I was only 27 years old and already had a master's degree, had combat experience, Was a captain in the army. I thought I had all these things, so I thought this is easy, Like I've got a nice resume so I'm good to go. But I found out getting out that translating a lot of those things that you do in the military can be very difficult and learning how to speak civilian when your main language is military, professionally, can be really, really challenging.
Speaker 2:So let's break that apart, kp, because a lot of times in my experience service members think that, oh gosh, yeah, because I had that combat experience, because I was an officer, because I stayed in for 20 years, I am the bomb. Really right, people would be lapping me up but not recognizing that everybody on the outside truly understands what all of those things mean. So how do we get people to really understand that? You know, you got to get the resume, you got to get your branding and you got to eat humble pie a bit.
Speaker 1:Humble pie. Yeah, let's underline that one. I think that's really important as well, because I wasn't humble at all, not that I was arrogant or cocky, I just thought that having everything that I had earned in the military was going to translate. And let me give you a quick story on how funny this was. So, like my first job after the military, I worked for a large company. It was in operations. I actually managed a department of union workers.
Speaker 1:And I remember one day you know us in the military, we know the difference between an NCO and an officer and we know the difference between enlisted and commissioned officers and warrant officers. We understand all that, we know the different positions. And I remember one day I was working there as a supervisor and I had an employee that was disciplined for something they're showing up late or sleeping or something on the job. It was something wacky, but I remember the comment that was from another supervisor there that had never been in the military and he said well, why don just, you know, be a drill instructor and, and you know, smoke them or whatever? And it was like a drill instructor, like I wasn't a drill instructor, I was a commissioned officer, and it was just funny to me because it didn't seem like they understood the difference between you know what they had watched on, you know saving private ryan versus like you know what real life was and uh, it, that's.
Speaker 1:That's the difference is like you've got people out there that have literally the only connection to the military is what they've seen in the movies, so they don't know the difference between an E5 and an O3.
Speaker 1:And you'll run into that. I think it's really important for folks out there to understand that. It's really important to open your ears and open your mind and to be open to listening to folks when it comes to that time to transition, because a lot of the things that you do for example, like I went through the air assault course, the Army air assault course, which is rigging and rappelling um two week course, uh, and I had a really difficult time explaining what that was to a civilian recruiter and trying to add value to how does this apply to the position that you're seeking to get Um. So I think that that being humble and understanding that a lot of what you do in the military may not translate over and you may have to do some extra civilian certifications to help draw that line from what you've done to where you want to go so then, kp, how does somebody really start translating what they've done into simple, clear terms, especially in an interview?
Speaker 2:what would you recommend other than yes, okay, let me go get some certifications, educations to match what is needed in civilian, but without necessarily negating everything that you do. What would be your recommendation to make sure in an interview, you're explaining that appropriately?
Speaker 1:Learning how to sell yourself is really important. So when I went through a career headhunter that was helping military officers and higher enlisted folks find jobs, one of the coaches there sat across from me and he goes look, you've got folks here that went to West Point, that have like 4.0 GPAs played sports. You've got people here that are way more impressive on paper than you. So you have to sell yourself. And here's the thing You're not a person that was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Everything that you've earned, you fought for, you're a scrapper, you're a fighter. So when you're sitting across from a recruiter, you need to explain that that.
Speaker 1:Look, I know that on paper I didn't go to the Naval Academy, but understand that I was a military brat, moved around quite a bit, my grades weren't exactly where they were supposed to be, but at the end of the day, I decided to serve my country, joined at 18 years old, worked my way through college, worked a part-time job, just started explaining this character of person that was going to get the job done, no matter what, because my competition was the six or seven other people that he was seeing that day that had way more impressive and sexier resumes than me because they were, I guess, positioned in a better spot or maybe they made better decisions at a younger age than I did.
Speaker 1:But at the end of the day, you got to understand it doesn't matter where you've been or what you've done. It matters where you're going to go and how hard you're going to work. It's all about the long term persistence. So, with that being said, selling yourself, You've got to learn how to sit across from a recruiter and explain to them why you're the best candidate that they're going to see that day.
Speaker 2:And what do you think is the deficiency of people not being able to sell themselves? Is it because they're relying on that veteran status mill spouse that I often see that people are really emphasizing that they think for the most part, the recruiter is going to understand them, so it's an easy sell.
Speaker 1:I think that at the end of the day, you got to look at your competition. So you're not just competing with folks that are getting out of the military. No, you're competing with folks that went to regular colleges and were in certain fraternities and certain sororities and were able to network. So they already know John and Cindy, because they're the recruiters that we're talking today, because they were in the same fraternity that I was in or same sorority that they were in. So that's the thing, too, you got to understand is like, even when I went to my first job, like the folks that I was competing with never served in the military. So it's the thing, too, you got to understand is like, even when I went to my first job, like the folks that I was competing with never served in the military. So it's not just about this small pool of folks getting out. You're competing with the rest of the world. Now your military service is like oh, that was cool conversation that will last about five minutes After that, when they start getting into the nuts and bolts of like, what can you give me if I put you in this position is real talk, and you need to be able to speak the language. I think one of the biggest things is a lot of us in the military have imposter syndrome. You don't realize your overall value. A lot of times in the military we kind of talk ourselves down from being the heroes that we really are. You know, especially if you've deployed, if you've gone TDY or if you spent time away from your family On base. Everyone else has done the same thing. But if you, once you leave the military, you're going to find out that really quickly. If you're sitting around any campfire in your neighborhood, you're probably the only person that served in the military and so you're no longer in a community of folks that have the same type of experiences. Now you're going to be when you're in the civilian world. You're going to be sitting around folks that have no idea what your life was like. So you know it could be imposter syndrome that some folks suffer from. It's not just one thing you know when they're getting out. Sometimes it's multiple things, or it's either imposter syndrome or it's not knowing how to sell yourself, or sometimes it's thinking that, like myself, thinking that, oh well, this is going to be a piece of cake. I got this. I don't need any help.
Speaker 1:I actually, when I left the army, they had a program on base called TAPS, and TAPS was a transition program. And I remember one of my soldiers came up to me and showed me a resume that supposedly TAPS had reviewed and it looked terrible. It looked horrible and it was to the point where, like I'm not going there for anything, so I purposely went there when I out processed. I went there the last day just to go in there and get their signature. And I wasn't supposed to do that.
Speaker 1:But with you know, I was just like whatever, like I'm leaving tomorrow, so you guys need to sign this right now. They're like well, we haven't reviewed your resume, I don't need you to just sign my stuff so I can get out of here. And so they didn't look at any of my stuff. I didn't get their help. I didn't want their help. So that was my own. That was my own fault that I did that. I should have at least been open and willing to have them take a look at my materials and see what opportunities they could have offered me.
Speaker 2:But I think, too, a lot of times we don't know what we don't know. If I look at my transition to I went to TAPS. I had no clue what was needed for this other side of the journey. I was told to go to TAPS, but really what was being shared? I didn't see the relevance to me. I didn't know how to apply it, so I just went through the motions, yes, got the check mark, but then when I was done, then I was like lost, completely lost. A needle in a haystack here and having to figure my way out. And this is one of the key things that we're really trying to support in the mastermind is making sure that you're not just doing things ad lib. You're having a good strategic plan. You're understanding the other side of the world. You're understanding what is needed in these jobs, how to excel in it, how to beat the competition, how to sell yourself and a lot of it.
Speaker 2:As you were saying too, kp is that for the most part in the military, you knew when you were going to make rank. You knew what was needed. Somebody is telling you your time in service, so you had all of these things already pre-planned for you, right? There was no, necessarily thinking of myself. How am I growing other than what service I'm providing? So that's why I think you know coming back to what you're saying is that it's so critical that you're learning your preparation is a key word that you're saying.
Speaker 2:But one thing I want to come back to there is earlier on we said we need to eat humble pie. Your rank, what you did, badass or not is not necessarily going to get you extra points. We get veteran status at five point, disability, etc. But on one hand we say, eat humble pie because that really doesn't matter so much, the weight of it isn't incredible in the civilian space. But then on the other hand, we say talk yourself up, don't be humble in those interviews. Talk about what you've done so that you can sell yourself. So how do we make that balance between eating humble pie and not being so humble?
Speaker 1:So I kind of know myself. And it's interesting because any type of high pressure training that I've ever been through, I've always I ask myself two things so where am I and what am I doing? So if I am a student in a course at the time, no matter what rank I am, I'm at a course right now and I'm a student right. So it's the same thing, like where am I right now? So I'm a transitioning veteran and I'm at a, I'm at a recruiting event. Understanding that, I think that overall it takes the pressure away sometimes when you have a little bit of humbleness about yourself. I know myself that if I go in rehearsed, I think that's the big key is I'm not saying that you need to talk yourself up, you just need to understand how to sell yourself. There's a big difference in that, like there's a difference between cockiness and understanding your true value, and I think it's really important for you to rehearse. Rehearse in a way that you can explain to someone that's never been in the military before, like you need to take the box of blocks and dump them out on the ground, take off your shoes, sit crisscross applesauce and, like, play the blocks with people that have never been in the military. They don't know the lingo. They don't know what MOS is. They don't know what any of. They don't know what branches are None of it.
Speaker 1:You have to rehearse to where you understand how to sell yourself, but at the same time, when you're in there, you have to in order to bring those stress levels down a little bit. You got to look at that recruiter as if oh well, this is just a conversation today, and I think that's the difference. Talk yourself up to your true value. Rehearsed wise. But when you're having that conversation with a recruiter, just remind yourself this is just a conversation, because it's just as much of an interview for you as much as it is for you interviewing them. Because this may not be the job for me, I may think I want it, but if this recruiter comes off as like someone I couldn't really gel with, or this company seems like the culture's off, then maybe you don't want to be there. So think of it that way too. It's a two-way street, like we're communicating, we're conversating to see if this would truly be a good fit, not just for you but for me too.
Speaker 2:I agree, and I think at the end of the day, maybe if I were to define it that humble pie is that level of expectation. Don't expect that you would get a job because you got rank or you got time in service, right, you got to go out there and prepare. You got to make sure that your resume is, you know, being able to translate into the civilian world, somebody read it and there's not a bunch of acronyms and all of these things that they don't understand. So there is that level of expectation and then the level of preparation and being able to sell yourself, as you said. But I think to one area that I see people struggle with is just not believing in themselves, the mindset. And this is where we start the mastermind with getting into that mindset. You got to believe in your skills, you got to acknowledge where your weaknesses are and then speak to how you're going to address those. So, kp, I mean for me, I have gone through my own development over the years and definitely got more confident.
Speaker 2:I can say that I have been consistently suffering with imposter syndrome, but I do have my bouts of it and I know how to control it. But I also have the cheerleaders around me to help support. So what recommendations do you have to make sure that people do feel comfortable in that interview, selling themselves and making sure that they stand out from the crowd confidently? Too often I see people kind of like in the background you have, you know, half a camera and, to be honest, it is like you're not going to get the job. You have to lean into the discomfort, you have to believe in yourself, but I can say that as much as I want to somebody. But how do you get them to really break through the barriers of imposter syndrome and being able to show up in those interviews?
Speaker 1:I mean, like I mentioned earlier, rehearsals are huge. I know that for me when it came to podcasting, just to become a better speaker. Chris McPhee had mentioned that he joined Toastmasters and that was very helpful, because Toastmasters is a speaking engagement group. There is an annual fee to join it. But I think that communication and being able to speak is a huge part of leadership, and being able to explain yourself clearly and being able to speak professionally is really important as well. So things like that can help you as far as presentation goes, but nothing beats just putting yourself behind the camera, hitting record. If it's a virtual interview, then practice with your spouse. Practice with friends, then practice with your spouse. Practice with friends If you're in the military. Ask your leadership to help you out as well.
Speaker 1:As far as reviewing and rehearsing, it's crazy because even as a instructor, as a you know, as an instructor, with with my, with my employer, there's many times where I'll stand in an empty classroom and I'll just stand there and talk and just learn how to speak and how to explain things, and it sounds crazy, but sometimes that's what you need to do, even just to learn how to sell yourself.
Speaker 1:I think, um, that's just the things those are just the things that I've done over time is just rehearse, rehearse, rehearse until I'm comfortable with it and understanding a certain template, uh, to utilize when you're answering questions.
Speaker 1:So one thing that I've used in the past to be confident about fully answering a question is I have utilized the STAR technique, which is the Situation Task, actions and Results. Or you can shorten it to where it's Situation, actions and Results actions and results or you can shorten it to where it's situation, actions and results, and so that'd be a great thing for you to Google or look up online is the STAR method, and it's great because it literally in your mind when you're answering a question. It starts from beginning to end. It's like writing a story. So it starts out with like the situation was I was an army captain, this happened, the actions I took were A, b and C, and then the results were I saved the world from exploding. And doing that every single time you answer those questions I think gives you confidence because it keeps you sort of compartmentalized with beginning, middle and end. So things like that practicing and having those templates in your mind, I think is a great way to do that.
Speaker 2:So, kp, one of the key things you keep coming back to is that preparation right. We just can't take it for lightly because we were in the military. We're going to get the job, but we know preparation takes work. This is hard. Nobody wants to do this stuff right. I don't want to pull out my phone and practice, but how do you really emphasize the need to prepare? There is a runway. It can take six months, it can take a, depending on where you want to go on the gaps that you have to fill in. But what would be your recommendation to making sure that people take this seriously? Here in the Mastermind we got a group of people going through the program, but not everybody is going to want to put in the work. Life gets in the way. So how do you make sure that people understand the consequences of not being prepared?
Speaker 1:I think, understanding the entire battlefield of what you're dealing with, the long view of what you're dealing with. So, for example, right here, my handy dandy dry erase board. It's not just for looks, it's actually back here for a purpose. So what I have on here is I wrote ideal salary and then I have ideal location, ideal career right, those are the three components, Like when we're looking for a job, to get those three things to actually intersect. On this, I guess journey that we're on to get those three things to intersect is very difficult to do to get those three things to actually intersect. On this, I guess journey that we're on to get those three things to intersect is very difficult to do To get those things, all three of those things, to intersect at the same time. The only way that you are able to really get that closer to one another is if you do prepare All right. So, for example, I just drew this down here this is you've got your salary, location intersecting right here, but then you've got your ideal career way over here. So something has to sacrifice.
Speaker 1:It's hard to get all three to intersect at the same time because in the military when you get out, they give you a retirement date. All right, they give you an ETS date and after that ETS date you are unemployed, and so that's the challenge. It's not like you can put in your two weeks to go hey, I've got another job lined up After that date. You're either employed or you're unemployed. So that can be a real challenge in itself. It can be really stressful. It can be a lot of that pressure and a lot of that stress by simply having options putting yourself out there. The more offers you get, the better off you're going to be. And I think understanding, like I'm a very visual person, so when I was getting out I was thinking about those lines and like, how do I get these lines of like?
Speaker 1:location, ideal salary and ideal job to intersect on the 15th of August when I get out. How do I do that? That's not. There's no two weeks. How do I get that all through those lines to intersect on the 15th? And at the end of the day I do. I wasn't able to get all three to intersect. I was able to get salary and location and that was it, but not ideal job. So yeah, that's kind of important, I think, for folks out there to motivate to start early.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the key thing. And if I had to do it again, just really understanding the reasons behind planning, I really had no clue. I was a lost lamb figuring it out and I often ask myself had I had a good transition plan, where would I be compared to where I'm at now? I don't negate my success in any way, but how many learning lessons would I have avoided or pitfalls in the road? So that's why we're all here really emphasizing again this is important Set yourself up for success.
Speaker 2:Don't just jump in the car and drive anywhere. You understand what your destination looks like and then being able to fill in the gap, kp. One last question I'm going to ask you here is oftentimes I feel people are set on a specific destination, that plan, the three lines intersecting they must be perfect and I often feel it holds them back from accepting a job. Then it amplifies the stress. You know my finances, all of these things. So, thinking about yourself and you talked about that first job, leaving the first job what is maybe your number one piece of advice? That, do we need to get it perfect? Do we need to have all the answers for that very first job?
Speaker 1:So that's actually a really, really great question. Nicole, you're an excellent interviewer, by the way. I just want to say I envy you. Even after podcasting for these last couple of years. You're awesome.
Speaker 1:I really think that you have to set your expectations out. I'm young, I've got a graduate degree, I've got combat experience. You know I'm an O3, I'm a captain, I've got a Bronze Star in Iraq. I've done all these great things right. But my expectations were way too high.
Speaker 1:Like I thought that I was going to be offered so many jobs and I think I had four at the beginning of of when I started transitioning, which I started transitioning maybe eight months from my, from my actual like uh, getting out of the military, and so I had four initially and then, when it was all said and done, I had one, one offer and it was. It was so scary to think like on the 15th of August, think like on the 15th of August I was going to be unemployed. So you know it was either take that job or go jobless. So how do you go from being an army captain to like no job? Like that, just to me, I couldn't even fathom. I was like I got to take this job.
Speaker 1:I guess I uh that overall um that when it, when it comes time to to transition, set your expectations to understand that, like this may not be the know all be all, this may not be my forever home, this may be like a a three year, four year stint for me, maybe one year, who knows but you got to take a swing in order to hit the ball and so, at the end of the day, you know, be prepared to get there, learn the culture, learn who you're working with. You know always have your network out there, because I was, even after I was there, I, after about a year of being at my first job, even after I was there, after about a year of being at my first job, I got a call one day and I got a job offer for something I had applied for two years prior and it was a great opportunity for me working in the federal government. And here I am, like 16 years later I've been working for the federal government.
Speaker 1:So, with that being said, I mean I kept my mind open, kept my options open. I was planning on going somewhere, taking another leap, but setting your expectations and keeping an open mind and don't be too hard on yourself, like, at the end of the day, those of us that are in the military, we're rough and tough and resilient. You know we're we. You know pick ourselves up, brush ourselves off. We keep going, and that's what separates us from everyone else. So, yeah, I think that's. I think that's it basically is just, you know, set your expectations and don't be too hard on yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think too, adding to that, just even comparison right Comparison is a thief of joy. We're all running our own race my capabilities compared to yours, my journey. It may take me six months to land that job compared to you. So there are so many varying factors there, but at the end of the day, the key word here is preparation, setting your expectations, understanding where you're going, filling in those gaps.
Speaker 2:But not everything is going to come on a silver platter because you have veteran or military affiliated. In some way. You got to put the work in, and that's often the hard part, because there's so much work to be put in, and this is why we stress all the time. You know have a runway for transition my opinion two years, but it's okay If you're just getting started. You got two weeks in front of you. Have a plan and this is why we're here at Acnell Mastermind. All right, everybody. This is it for today's session. I'm so grateful for you, kp. It is awesome to be on this side. Thanks for telling me I did a good job. I am here shaking in my boots, but thank you so much for this and we will see you guys on Saturday. Take care everyone.