5 Modern Tips for Military/Civilian Resume Building with Jon Morgan from W4W Georgia

Today, I am honored to have a guest who’s going to share some very important tips that’ll help our military community create better resumes and complete online application to take that next step in the hiring process.

Here on The Morning Formation, we are laser focused providing you the best tips from Veterans who have paved the path to help you make better decisions. Our guest today is Jon Morgan and he’s the Work for Warriors Georgia Employment Coordinator. And today we’re going to learn about his resume hacks, his organization, and his position with Work For Warriors Georgia. 

Jon Morgan's LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-morgan-65201b99/

Jon Morgan's Email:
jon@w4wga.org

W4W Georgia LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/company/work-for-warriors-georgia

W4W Georgia Website:
https://workforwarriorsga.org/staff/

W4W Georgia Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/W4WGA/

Transcript

KP: 0:00

This episode is powered by Aktau education, go to www dot ACC now education.com For free comprehensive educational resources and opportunities for active duty veterans, military spouses, and children.

Jon Morgan: 0:16

Like I said, there's a lot of educational opportunities that servicemen and all services Miss while they're in while they're in service. And in it's like, oh, when they get out, and it's like, oh, I had that opportunity. Yeah, I'm sorry. But then now you no longer there. So I encourage all transitional service members. Now unless you're retiring medically or traditionally. But for that's understandable, you can't go into the garden reserve, but always encourage everyone to go into the garden reserve components,

KP: 0:51

or yours fall in. It's time for formation. Today, I'm honored to have a guest who's going to share some very important tips that will help our military community create better resumes, and complete online applications to take that next step in the hiring process. But before we move on, I need to acknowledge our trusty co host Avi. Avi, how're you doing this week, buddy?

Avi Dhanraj: 1:12

Pretty good. KP excited for the episode, as always,

KP: 1:16

Sound like you had your coffee. Your afternoon coffee anyhow. So those let's get to it. So here on the morning formation, we are laser focused on providing you the best tips from veterans who have paved the path to help you make better decisions. Our guest today is John Morgan. And he's he works for Work for Warriors, Georgia as an Employment Coordinator, and today we're going to learn about his Resume Hacks his organization and his position with Work for Warriors Georgia. John, I want to thank you for joining us today.

Jon Morgan: 1:46

Thank you KP. I'm happy to be here.

KP: 1:50

Honors all ours. So John, first of all, I'd like for you to tell us about your organization Work for Warriors, Georgia. I'm interested to know a little bit more about this specific organization.

Jon Morgan: 2:01

Well, their word for word is Georgia program. It started about five years ago back in 2017. We're starting into our fifth year. We're Employment Assistance Team. We are DoD funded. So we are sponsored by the Georgia Army National Guard's Family Assistance Program. And so when it comes down to it, we have two missions. statements as far as on that one we support the servicemen we support all servicemen not just national guard, or reserve we support all servicemen of all branches and their spouses. And so what we do for them is that we we do resume building, coaching,

Unknown: 2:43

education, educational training, and also we look at, you know, as far as on the coaching part of it, the interview process, like like said the most common interviews that go out there today is like here, like on video, also by phone or by in person. And I'll say one tip, as far as when you do a video, make sure you're fully clothed everyone. There, there's been some cases on on that many of times. So it's nothing embarrassing when you're asked to stand up and see your folio appearance. And your you have to say, Oh, I have to take a brief pause. I'm not wearing anything in yeah, that's, that's not a good, good sign. Right. As far as our second part of our mission, we we work with employers that are veteran friendly, that those we help educate those employers that that have no veterans that work for them. There's a lot on still out there. Knowing one of your previous episodes, you know, you talked about like anywhere from five to 8% of the employers out there that actually have military experience. That's, that's about right on the money because Georgia Tech it puts out here about a year or so ago was about 94% that does not have any military experience or anything else like that. So that's where we can educate employers. When one example I had I had a school system that came came to me says John, I am looking for diesel engine mechanics. And I have four four that came from the army and they were heavy and light will mechanics. But then in their resumes, they stated they didn't state their diesel engine mechanics. Well, first I assured her I said, Look, do not turn those people down. You need to go back and research them again. I said they are diesel engine mechanics. So she was like, Oh, thank you very much. She had to call her assistants. I do not send those emails out just yet. We want to go back and call in call these individuals. So that's when it comes down to as far as with the employers that are out there are not military savvy. They can we can educate as far as on that. Now our biggest concern is forging. Excuse me, go ahead. You're basically you're basically but I think we have a little bit of a lag here. Hear, because it says you're only at 12%. But it says,

KP: 5:05

basically Work for Warriors, Georgia, what they do is they bridge that gap between the translation of culture between the military and civilian employment is what it sounds like. That's correct. KP. Like I said, we we we are like the mediators between the servicemen and the employers. So when, like, like when we do the introductions to both sides, van, it's up to both sides whether or not after we do the meet and greet on both sides, Finn, our job is pretty much done. It's up to that individual servicemen or spouse or that employer to do it. So it's no obligation on either side. So that's one of our biggest challenges is that we face is that being the mediator is that in doing the introductions is that the employer has no obligation to hire that person, all they're obligated to is that when we provide them with that candidate, we are telling them, that we're showing them that that person meets the criteria, what they're looking for. Now, when it comes down to the personality, the interviewer or anything else like that. And that's where it comes into both sides. And then we sit with the servicemen, they might not like what they want to hear as far as when it comes down to as far as the job description itself, once they start doing, getting into the weeds talking with that with that hiring manager. And then like I said, it's it's no obligation on either side. But we do have, like I said, we have a lot of partnerships across the state of Georgia. I'm one of seven employment coordinators, and I work 33 counties as a state. So I cover all the coastal counties of Georgia, along with into the inner part of Georgia, so it's

Unknown: 6:48

so we have a lot. Most of my focus base has been in the Savannah area for steward, because we have Hunter Army Airfield, and also for Stuart. And then down in Brunswick, Georgia, we have Kings Bay, which is we are partnered up with our sister organization in Florida to to help those that can't live on the border and going to Jacksonville. And then also here in Savannah area. Those that work in the South Carolina area. They have their own program as well. So it's it's a it's a lot of networking a lot, a lot of hands on on deck, as far as front assist that serviceman or spouse skis. You know, I never, I never thought about it before, but that whole area is full of military bases. And Georgia specifically is full of military bases. What's your outreach? Like? Do you know how many folks you've actually served? As far as the last three years, since I've worked with the workforce program since I've retired? Now, my first year I was working as a career counselor to our sister program sponsored by National Guard Bureau had a little bit more on that. Now, as far as overall, I would say right now in our database for work warriors, we have about over five 6000 candidates that we have previously worked with continuously working with, and in my previous, so right now, but in my last three years, as far as assisting just with the employment of yesterday, I received my 105th as far as candidate that they got accepted and work. Now it's not what all the employers I highly encourage, not just look at the employers, we provide them, but also do their own searching and researching. So I do a lot of coaching and continues how they can search for jobs. But like I said, it, it's been a big milestone, especially COVID here, because right when I changed over to programs a few months later, COVID hits and it was like, I went from education in my career counseling days as far as not just employment, but financial counseling everything else and in going just an employment and in COVID hits in this light. No one's hiring and everybody's staying home. Because the COVID and everything was shutting down. So it was it's been a big challenge. But it's it's it's been it's been a wonderful challenge that that has been very rewarding to me. Now, John, I'm glad you brought that up. Because you know, taking any, you know, taking a quick look at your LinkedIn profile. It's no secret that you have over 27 years of experience between your military and your current endeavors. And that's amazing. Now, with that experience also comes lessons learned new perspective, and insight. Now, I'm wondering if that experience or your experience with the National Guard has changed the way you approach your job as an Employment Coordinator, or if it influences you in any way to bring about new approaches to the employment system, especially for transitioning military. As far as live, as far as with my years experience, I mean, I started as career counselor. In my fifth year I was a part time soldier I was working civilian jobs, I was going from sales I had started my own company with with my father in waterjet, manufacturing, cutting seals and gaskets. And so we had that I had that dynamic a little bit when I came in, came into the guard always wanted to serve activities. And when I had the opportunity to come into the active garden reserve program for the Georgia Army National Guard, it was a wonderful thing. But then the first thing they put me in was that I was that retention NCO. That was that retention manager, I was that career counselor for each of the soldiers part time. And so that's where it really, really began for me. So I had my high numbers I showed soldiers, one of the biggest things always for that within the National Guard. And I can say for probably the reserves as well as always been employment. That's one of the reasons that most want to get out, they feel that their Guard or Reserve experience hinders them. As far as in their employment, they do not have to explain to their supervisor or to their boss, or to their company, how what they do on the drill weekends, they just must have the employers I've talked to over the years, think that they're just asking for a free weekend, and they're just going off and partying now. And that's what and that's what the stereotyping that that most employers, like I said they had no military experience, they didn't know what we were doing. And so that's where it was really coming down to as far as on that. As far as so that like said was for motivating. Also with with that as far as when educational terms. And, and like I said, I've had a lot of lot of experience as far as on that. And one thing is always I did, I was always honest with the soldiers, I was just like, I never sugarcoat it, I basically told them what it is, here it is. And you could take it or leave it. And for the most part, most of them took it because that's the way I put it to them, I'm not gonna sit there and hold their hand. And that's how it was when I was a retention manager. And I've had to kind of change that a little bit, because now that I'm working more of in the civilian aspect, but then on the same time, I am working with transitioning soldiers and all that. And sometimes I have to be abrupt, like that's that Terry culture right there, you could definitely use it in way more aspects than you think. Most definitely. I mean, it's, it's, it's a whole, like I said, it's a whole different culture of in the civilian world, I like to say that I was blessed would come in on active duty with the National Guard for the for my last 20 years of service. And like I said, I had the culture of both working with both bifactor duty and part time soldiers that were seeking employment and having the counsel and so I'll pick I was better off than most when I was doing my own personal transitioning, but it was it was it was still experience for me. Even trying to look into the into the networking, of going from what I was doing prior to either got accepted for this job, or this position in in going in doing search into that career world. It's it's is phenomenal is is is very difficult. Yeah, most certainly. And just like Avi mentioned, you have over 25 years of National Guard military experience, and over that span of time you witnessed others transition out of the military. Can you talk about some of the some of the dynamics of the National Guard versus active duty? Would you mind sharing some of those experiences as far as how they both components work? And what you've seen over the years as far as transition? As far as, as far as the national guardian? inactive duty? Yes. I mean, they still have the same mission in mind. As far as what they do on both times, it's only differences is that active duty, you do that one certain job every day, whether you your infantry, engineer, artillery, and then so you're you're focused on that one particular task as far as the National Guard, and I'll say reserve, I'll say to them, as well as that we are part time are those soldiers who are part time they do their one weekend want their two weeks out of the training? So yes, there's a lot of catch up a lot of times when they come activated and go overseas, yes, you have to kind of give them back in that mind frame of everyday active duty mentality. But like I said, the same missions are still apply. As far as when employment itself is seen when I seen is like, it's still the same issues on both sides where your transition or Guard Reserve is hard to explain what you do to that employer in a more civilian friendly atmosphere. Many shy away from it when they do not understand what you do for the military if they've never served. And so that's that's been the biggest things right there. One of the biggest things I had Going for me was Army Learning, I was able to show soldiers that were in the guard, that that was a wonderful tool to get civilian training education. That's been around for almost 30 years. One thing that really bothers me is every time I asked a transitioning soldier, or current soldier, or whether active duty Guard Reserve, I asked them first one of the first questions I asked them, I said, How much have you done on Army Learning? And then I get that deer in the headlights look, and I was like, how do you not know about this? This is, this is crazy, because this this site has been around ever since. But right when the dawn of the internet, I mean, when I was in service, I found it and I had been taken, I had taken 1000s of courses, 1000 hours. I mean, as far as on the courses online, I was able to show soldiers in sight, because I had soldiers say, hey, I want to get back to school, I want to focus on school, I have GI Bill. And then I look at him. I said, if I could show you an opportunity to get free education, and do it self paced and online and get the same certifications, would you stay in, in the guard? And then the first thing they look at me says, well, there is no such thing. And then when I show them, it was like, Okay, where do I sign up because I said, you can only use this while you're in the guard, and or in military service. And now from what I've seen over over the years, working this is all the components have a certain similar Outcast as far as our website that does civilian opponents. So I highly encourage everyone to seek out your career advisors for your component and see what was available. I certainly think that it is up to the military leaders to impress upon the soldiers to take advantage of the free education opportunities. And that was something that I sought out to do when I was a lieutenant in active duty. My background as well as I was enlisted in the National Guard. So a lot of the things that you're talking about, I can I can kind of grin at because I was I was a part of that was a part of that. And I I kind of understand both mentalities as far as, you know, way of thinking. And I think that's a great cell that you just brought up right there. When you make the impossible sound possible. And you make it sound like, you know, what's in it for me, when you make it sound like that, it's a lot easier for someone to see the benefits over those weekends that sneak up on you. And those metaphors, muta fives, those the 80s that you have to go to over the summers, it makes it a lot easier to bear when it comes to when it comes to understanding that, hey, you can really invest in yourself. I wanted to add on to what KP saying right there, especially in this age. Right now the dawn of the internet, we have so many opportunities, both online in person virtual hybrid, just an infinite amount of possibility for elearning right now, both in and out of the military. So as someone who's trying to transition into the Air Force, there are countless opportunities for me, not just to familiarize myself with the Army, Army, the military culture, but also to prepare myself for what I expect to be doing in the service. For example, cyber ops, taking college courses, not even enrolled, you know, just just taking college courses as a non degree seeking student doing elearning and certification courses, joining and volunteering for various organizations is just a plethora of opportunities for you, even if you're transitioning into the military. So for those listening out there, don't think that just because you're in your 20s, or in your teens and looking to get into the military, that this doesn't apply to you. Exactly. I mean, it's it's like said, there's a lot of educational opportunities that servicemen and all services Miss while they're in while they're in service of in. It's like, oh, when they get out and it's like, oh, I had that opportunity. Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'm in now you no longer day. So I encourage all transitional service members. Now unless you're retiring medically or traditionally. But for that's understandable, you can't go into the Guard Reserve, but always encourage everyone to go into the Guard or Reserve Components of their branch or even a different branch. Reason why I'm saying that because you keep that networking going. As far as in the military community, you still keep some benefits. Like I said, Now the TRICARE Reserve Select is out there for at least on the garden reserve side. And so as far as on the benefits side, and then also to as far as you know, you have the potential of going back to active duty a lot easier than someone that leaves out. So if you say well, the guard is not for me. I can't make it in the civilian world which A lot happens, then they have that opportunity to get back into Guard Reserve and keep their years of service going. So that's as far as with education and training. When I was in the guard, as far as I'm part time, and then a little bit on the full time side, I think 10 MLS is military occupation skills now went from engineering to field artillery to infantry, to recruiting and retention, and also human resources. So it was I had a very diverse so when I had a sergeant major tell soldier one time says, you know, have the SAR major stone soldier, he says, I have found MLS is and you know, you should continue education. He looked over me. So like, he figured out how to like two or three. And as he got started, he looks at me and says, me you have there started Morgan. I said, Well, I have 10 sar major me and he looks at me. I said, Well, here's my record sheet, because it was kind of like unheard of. And so I went for every educational training that there was, and it was available to me at that time. John, I'm really glad that we have you as a guest on today's show. And it's mainly because you have the National Guard experience. And I haven't I don't believe in my recollection. We've had anyone part of the reserve or National Guard on the show before. So I find that kind of unique and I'd like to ask you, since you've been part of Work for Warriors, Georgia, what has been your involvement specifically? Anyone out there listening right now? Who's looking to contact you? What specifically can you offer them as far as services, suggestions or advice? What? What is what has been your main role with Work for Warriors? Well, when I started out with the program, I was I was still in service. The My predecessor vet was started in this program, the sister organization, like I mentioned earlier. I was I was I was Operations Manager for armory. And I help assist the My predecessor in getting established and getting the program established within within the area, Fort Stewart and the other areas of Georgia. He came to me and said, Hey, John, I've been at Fort Stewart for last couple months, I've heard the National Guard training center, I haven't hardly had any contact with anyone. And it was like employers even I didn't even know about his organization. But when he mentioned who his boss was a lieutenant colonel that I had worked with previously over the years of went deployment to Iraq with and when I first say I just called him up I had his personal cell phone that's a little bit difference between the Guard and Reserve is that a Sergeant First Class having a lieutenant colonel or fullbore, Colonel's phone number and calling them directly and saying, Hey, sir, Wescoe, what's going on? Is this person legit or not? Because that was the first thing I did is that anyone that came into my armory and said they were representing a Veterans Program, I researched them, make sure that they were legit, and then make sure that we're not there to take advantage of veterans because there are some organizations out there that like to take advantage of veterans in in seeking employment or anything. And when I found out he was legitimate, I gave him an office, set him up. And because my office right outside of hi are for Stewart in Hinesville, Georgia, it's the busiest armory event I have ever been in. Because we have a lot of foot traffic coming through whether it's veterans, employers, the community itself, and it was it was a he was amazed after within a week's time, he had more contacts with people in employers and all that and he had in the previous two months when the program started. And then we became very good friends, Jeff and I did and then we continued until he was offered a position up in up in Atlanta, where he was from he was looking at moving back. And then he's like, where are you at on you're transitioning and him and I've been talking, conversing of the issues that I had been seeking or trying to look for implementing says hey, would you like to take my job? And I was like, or would you like to apply for my position? I said, Sure, most definitely. And, and so he reached out to his boss, who's this retired Sergeant state Sergeant Major of Tennessee and and he was our regional manager within a week he had me on an interview we had phone interview, two phone interviews, and after that I was hired so the day I left Left the guard to my transitional service I the next day I was one day I was in uniform the next day I came in back in wearing this right here and I've been I've been there ever are been like I said between two programs that are running joke is for my National Guard Armory and my unit that that I support there as is like you've been here through the guard you've been here to two programs and you're still here in two staffs have already rotated in and out so it's it's the funniest part No, John, that's hilarious. It's it's nice to see that Even though you have a lot of experience with different things, you're still, you know, making a good joke out of it. But, you know, continuing on here, I know that especially with how many transitioning service members are out there, and need of assistance, it can be pretty difficult to take heed of cookie cutter advice, like, Hey, do this, do that, do this, you know, jump through the hurdles, do elearning, go through some resume revisions, and go through the job search, and you'll be alright. And some may still feel that after all that and more, they still aren't making the progress that they need to be or as quickly as they should be. What can you advise to these people out there that just need some extra advice, or maybe are in a very, very unique life situation. As far as the situation I tell any transition, if they're, if they're still in service, they need to take every opportunity they can, while they're in service, to start doing their networking, start doing their outreach to companies and everything else like that, is like we were talking about as far as cookie cutter, I started my program with what a person the first thing I asked him, I said, Do you have a resume, and then I asked them to send it or forward it to me, so I can view it before I speak to him. And I give them tips. And suggestions. What I see on there. Many things when it comes down to the resume is that you're going to have to have multiple versions of your resume, if you want to use indeed, or if you want to use zip recruiter, that's great. But you're only going to be able to apply for jobs within indeed and zip recruiter, if you try to take those resumes and send them out separately, you download them sending out separately been nine times out of 10, that's not going to work or 10 times out of 10 is not going to work because it's totally different formats and what most employers look at. So when but then also too, I tried to work myself out of a job with with these with these servicemen and spouses in when I mean mean by that is I give them all the tips of the trade as far as how to build a resume, how to maintain and resume how to tweak their resume, as far as changes, because when I get a little bit more into this, as far as with the resume building, and applying online, it's it's, it's, it's phenomenal. Because like I said, in going back when your previous episodes there, KP is like when you're talking about personal branding in your personal space. So I could write the resume for them, but there's gonna be a basic resume, and it's not going to be a personality resume. And then and then when it's not going to fit them personally. And then it's the employer is going to see that and that's where you call when you talk about cookie cutter. And, and if you do that, if you have someone else write your resume for you, then that's where you're not going to get the personality. So that's one of the things I try to teach, I try and instruct and try to coach and then I just follow up later on. So like if you don't want to talk to the employers that we have personally. Or if you do and you're still looking at other options, and doing your own thing in in applying for jobs, then it's that's what I try to teach as far as coaching because like I said, I might not be here all the time, like so we are a DOD funded program. And it's like what that saying Lieutenant Colonel, that I spoke with when the program started, is that he said, Hey, this program could go at any time. So while we're here, educate your educator, servicemen, educate your spouses, to better themselves better themselves and to in doing their own resume and employment. I know now with the day I would say years ago, 20 years ago, when I came in, or 25 years ago, when I came into the guard, not many people could tighten. That's how I was able to get on onto the active Guard Reserve Program. I was one of 90 people that when they asked when our personnel sergeant had left on our emergency leave, and they said how many here can type and I was the only one out of 90 people that raised her hand. And so then they put me in front of the computer and then I was working for the entire drill drill weekend. And and I was like, Oh, what am I doing here. But the commander was so impressed that after after that weekend was over, that he offered offered me to come on full time when the actual garden reserve program about a year later it did. Now as far as as far as time you're going to get frustrated during your transition, whether your garden reserve and you're going from one civilian employer to another or if you're active duty coming coming into the civilian workforce. Everybody gets I have yet to come across that veteran or that service member or spouse that are trained transitioning from from in from anywhere that hasn't not had that problem where you're frustrated and that goes on to more like I said before, it was more paper you were more in front of people and and now you have the dawn of the internet, which has been around for a while computers have taken over and That computer takes a lot of the personality away from the hiring manager from the hiring management in my in my personal view. Now, John, before we continue, I just want to highlight to the audience's sitting at home what you were saying about a quarter of the way through that speech there. Ladies and gentlemen, the transition out of the military starts before you transition out. That's something both Kp and I love to preach wherever we go. John was highlighting that you need to be networking, contacting companies working on your resume, and even just making connections in and out of the military, while you're still serving. So that come time to transition, now, you're not three, four steps back, while everybody else is at least semi ready. That's actually a really great point, Avi, and one of the things I want to mention with that as well, I always say that your transition begins the first day that you start in the army, possibly even before that. And I recently had asked some recruiters about, you know, a lot of the folks that come in here and they enlist that you obviously figure out what their goals are. Does anyone here follow up with those goals? Does anyone after they're done with their basic nit? Does anyone call them up and say, Hey, did you enroll in college? Did you do this to do you know, whatever it was that your goals were? And their answer to me was, well, they send us a picture of them after and I'm like, No, that's not what I'm talking about, are you keeping them honest, and keeping them accountable. And I understand that they can't, they have, like so many people. And I think that's the gap that we're at starts as far as getting off on the right foot when you get to your first duty station, or when you show up to your unit on day one. And I signed up for the National Guard at the end of 1998. And I went to basic training in 1999. John, and I'll tell you this, from my perspective, to things that changed the guards specifically and just change the whole field that we're talking about. It was the internet, and then 911. And because before that, it was sort of rare for a lot of units to to deploy. And once 911 happened, the reserve units and National Guard units, were getting deployed, you know, quite a bit. And so a lot of the folks that were just kind of there, and like you were talking about type and you know, not being able to type and stuff it a lot of those folks were from what I saw, they were sort of filtered out, and they got out and then the new the new blood came in the guys that you know, wanted to be there and could actually, you know, do certain things. And I don't know, was that your experience as well? Did you see kind of a flush of different national guardsmen when when 911 happened? Yes, it did KP it. When 911 happened. I was in in the armory to Springfield, Georgia armory that morning. And it was a sad thing about our supply sergeant came running in and he was telling us what was going on. And at that point, we immediately went into action, my rendus NCO, I was 85 at that point, and I looked over and I said, Hey, we just came back from drill in our vehicles need to be topped off, we need to be ready to go, they already started to talk about, you know, us guarding the airports or guarding the armories guarding certain installations. And it was a lot of mass confusion, you know, of that day. And so we immediately went in to actually start running vehicles back and forth, we have a lot of people we didn't even ask them to come. If it was in the unit that live local, they were already showing up in uniform, and helping us perform the task as far as on that as far as the 911. And we've kind of freaked out the small little town in Springfield, Georgia, because they saw a military vehicles run up and down the road. And they thought we were being invaded. And it was, like I said, a lot of mass confusion that but like, like you were saying, back to what you're saying, Kp as far as on the transitioning soldiers, like I said, I was learning how to I had already learned how to type I learned in high school. And that was one of the key components that made me success as far as in the keyboarding class. But it didn't Yes, there was a lot of older soldiers that knew how to do things pencil, pencil in hand. And in comparison to the computer. I went from the combat engineers over to Field Artillery yourselves in the field artillery when not 11 happened. And in a few years later, I went transferred back ever to fill artillery and also Staff Sergeant. And the same people that were there. When they were still he fours or he fives. Were we're still e files and or E fours, and they haven't moved up. And then here I come back as a staff sergeant. And then they used to be over me and now all over them. So that was a that was a big challenge. I mean, it showed the difference as far as the dawn of the computer internet age and coming in between both sides. But the good thing is that I learned both cycles, I had an opportunity to learn about cycles. So when it came into when the computer breaks down, which when you're out in the field internet goes down, what do you do? And you got a lot of fire mission, and you showing it by hand and the person, the those that came in after me says, I only know how to do it by computer, how do you do it? How do you do a fire mission by hand? Well, let me show you. Yes, it's a little bit more tedious, it's a little bit more strenuous. By being like I said this, like, so there was a major transition as far as on the computer. So a lot did get out. And leave those that retire of those who had those went through retirements and all that says, hey, we this is a whole new era of a way of doing things and in many do not want to learn once they are settled. If you're not flexible, as far as in the change, then that's where you kind of get left behind. Yeah, and I just want to go back, John, to what we talked about, a few minutes ago, you talked about resumes. And I wrote down a few, at least two things that you talked about that were sort of some tips on how folks can better create resumes to get that next step in the process for hiring. One was creating your own resume and having that personality about it, versus having someone else do it, too was making sure that you have multiple resumes. So you mentioned zip recruiter, indeed, do you have any additional tips for folks out there that are possibly doing their best to create good resumes that represent themselves on paper, but may not fully have it yet, and are looking to get some tips or some hacks on what they can do better to make a better representation of themselves on paper? Yes, I do as far as not just was indeed and ziprecruiter. Because that's what a lot of ones I get. There's also LinkedIn, LinkedIn is a digital resume, in my opinion, it's a could put down all all your focus all your education down in one. And that's why I try to tell people if you're a military servicemen, there's no reason that you shouldn't have a LinkedIn account. And there's no reason that you should have the premium account with it, because it's free to you. I have that deer in the headlights look again, as far as on that. So that's one tip right there. As far as with the LinkedIn, as far as on the resumes, as far as other personal resumes being you have to look at it, whether or not are you looking at in the civilian sector? Are you looking into the federal state sector, and on the federal side, there's USA Jobs, that's a totally different for resume format. I know, we have done classes to that on the virtual ourselves as far as on both sides, as far as just a regular civilian and a federal resume. And that a USO has as done a lot of classes as well, and that they share online forms with that. So like said, when I say multiple resumes, it depends on what you're looking for. As far as like Sid Jaeger, indeed, he has a zip recruiter, you get your LinkedIn. So this is where I'm saying your resume start growing, as you have your USA Jobs, and then you have your personal resume. Now, when you get to the personal resume, the issue have been always seen with veterans, it's been the online so like said, is trying to apply online. And this is where I say you're gonna have multiple versions of your regular civilian resume. And the reason why I say that is that when you apply for a company, I'm going to I'm going to say this. First thing you need to look when you see the jobs posted for that company for most of these corporations, is that look at the posting date of it. If it's more than two weeks, then I would say don't apply for it. reason why is because they've already started the vetting process. And any thing has been emailed to them after the fact goes into a dead docket file. I have seen this personally, I've been coached by by other corporations, military liaisons to some big corporations. And it's in seeing this process. It really takes away not just from veterans, but from anyone in general. And it's, it's very tragic, because they miss out on a lot of opportunities on people. So when, when I look at that, so when, when the jobs itself come come available, look at that, that, that posting date on there, the next thing is word association. If you're spending three minutes, or three to five minutes, sending your resume out, then you're doing something wrong. The reason I say that as far as on that you need to pull up that job description, you need to do the word association. A lot of these companies have the word associate Association algorithms as far as kind of search engines that that they're looking at. And so depending on what that means is that the job description they take 20 30% of that job description, they take the key words and they type it into the system, and it will do a search based off the application or the resume Vici send him And that knocks out anywhere with say you had 100 people apply, that knocks out anywhere from 20 to 40% of the applications that go through, because like I said, military personnel, our military servicemen, we use a lot of jargon and use a lot of acronyms, and that computer is not going to recognize it. And also on top of that, when you're looking at at that, make sure you meet the 100% requirements, whether it's education, you have it listed somewhere. And if it's education you have at the time that if they're asking for a number of years experience, make sure you have that in your resume, and you're staying focus you staying on target with it. I had a spouse that reached out to me, she said, John, I apply for 100 jobs and only got two callbacks, and one I had to call myself, and what can you do to help me? And so I was telling her these tips of the trade, you know, say hey, you got did a word association, you got to look at the job itself, and then go back out and apply. Well, she applied, and she applied for 10 more jobs and human resources filled. And she got seven callbacks out of the 10. So it like I said, it's it's a it's a process. And I told her I said you have to plug and play. And you know, hopefully, one day you get 10 out of 10. But it's because that was the first question I asked her I said, Did you send the same exact resume to all 100 positions? She says yes, I did. So it was like now I said try the word association try to read tweak it. So when I say word association, like a lot of cases come up and say, you know like supply, logistics clerk specialist. So that's, that's where it comes into it a lot when it comes into position titles. It can be a lot of other things like I was saying heavy wheel mechanic earlier in in diesel engine mechanic, two different means the same things, but you got to make sure you do the word association. When it comes to education. I used to not tell. I used to not tell in can't our candidates to sorry about that. I used to not tell our candidates that to put their high school education if they had a higher degree of education, one have always looked at it. Well, if you have a higher degree of education, chances are you have a high school diploma or GED. And by then, it depends on that recruiter whether or not they plugged in the correct information did they add in high school diploma, GED associate's degree bachelor's doctorate. And as seen that were the the person that had the associate's degree but didn't have their high school diploma listed. And they were able to go through the hiring next hiring process. And then the and then the one that had just had put their own their high school diploma actually went through the hiring process. So and that's where the computer again, takes a lot away from from from the candidates out there for as far as on selections. And it's it's it like I said, again, it's tragic. And but that's the way that the computers has really run this industry as far as recruiting it in coming down to applying for the jobs. If you apply for more, I asked this question to, to every candidate, when you apply online, do you apply from war and one job at one time, and I usually get a yes on that. And then as well, there's another issue there too. If you apply them to decipher three jobs, if you're applying for a, b and c, and that recruiter opens up giant B, then when they finally opened up the vetting process for Job A and C, that system will show that they're already in the process no matter where they're at in Job B, and they will basically admit them so the recruiters don't even see those other two resumes are the same resumes in the other two job applications. So a lot of people think why apply for six, seven jobs on there, and I didn't I only got one referral back or instead or not, you know, it wasn't the job I was looking for. I wasn't really close to it. That was the job that was open and the other six was basically omitted. And if you apply for too many jobs at the same time, that computer system will think you're a spam network trying to get in an infiltrator system and then they'll block you altogether from ever applying again. And then that's where you get to go and get new emails and, and new points of contact. So you can you can attempt again. And it's very frustrating. It really is. Now, John, I'm sure a lot of people can relate to what you're seeing right now. And if your anecdote wasn't enough proof that you know what you're talking about, ladies and gentlemen, John is an employment manager for work for years. I mean, his experience close back yours and he's seen it all. This is definitely the advice you want to be taking. Now, John, following on that, what are some pinpoint accurate or effective networking strategies that you've seen people effectively use, especially as a military service member transitioning into the civilian world? Well, I'll say you're always networking, whether when you're in grade school, to now to the military and retire, you're always networking, whether it's for friendship, personal or professional reasons. You know, like I said, a lot of your personal network can become your professional. I'll say my best success over the last couple of years has been through LinkedIn. I mean, in the last six months alone, I've gotten a lot of referrals, connections. That's why I'm here tonight. That's how we, we end up networking between our mutual connections. And Alec said, that's why I have the opportunity to speak with you. So that's why I'm saying networking as far as on LinkedIn. The others, like I said, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, they're more of a personal networking site. And so you don't get you get a lot of personal along with professional. That's why I like LinkedIn so much, as far as on professional and over the last like several last six months, it's definitely became a great tool, I've been able to share contacts, a lot of in this past quarter alone, since October started, have helped coach 15 servicemen and using the LinkedIn tools 13 Out of the 15 was using the LinkedIn tools that they have on there. So it's, that's a great social networking site. Again, it's our for professional, professional networking. As far as networking itself, I mean, it gives you a world of opportunities, as far as advancing your career, advancing your education, and being also to when you're ready to have that. If you're ready to excuse me, if you're ready to have that referral, when it comes to you always have to have references, especially in the professional world. I'll say this much, John, you know, anyone out there listening, that's wondering about networking, you're right, you're networking almost all the time, the number one thing that you have to do with networking is you have to put yourself out there. And how you could do that today is virtually and when you're talking about LinkedIn, that's exactly what that is. Back in the day before the internet, the way you put yourself out there was you showed up to events or you showed up to places and you met, you know, folks that were of certain positions that you wanted? Or maybe you're interested in or wanted to do a little research about what today? It's a lot simpler, you simply just go in, and it blows my mind. Every time I mentioned to someone who's currently in the military, hey, do you have a LinkedIn? They say no. And I'm like, Well, why not like, that is the number one way to put yourself out there in position to network with folks. And you never know, it's kind of a passive way of always being available, and always being present, and making those connections with folks. And that's how you and I got connected was through LinkedIn. So really appreciate you being on the on the show today and listening to a few of our different episodes from the past. John, I really appreciate that. And before we wrap things up, John, I just want to ask you, is there anything specific? No, is there anything specifically that you'd like to tell the audience out there? Just to summarize everything that we've talked about in this episode? I'll tell him you're gonna like I said, you're gonna be definitely first right at some point during your military transitioning, you're going to be told that you're not you're not suitable for the job that that you're you're trying to apply for. And you're kind of like what I used to do this in the military but then again, to military and civilian are two different things is a totally different network and be humble. Look at the entry level programs for most of regardless of what previous rank that you've held. I always say try to look at going to entry level try not to be the manager try not to be the boss because like I said, a lot of times like I said, Georgia Tech's even said it best 74% They're trying to go for these key management roles and all that do not last after six months and reason why is because of the different personality brands on that. So let's say Continue, continue fighting the fight, look out there for every organization out there that they can seek out there and help you like said the American Legion, also the VFW a lot of those that are needing you know, as far as personalities, they have a lot of resources there that can help you as well. Like I said, the world Warriors Program in some other sister organizations of other states are available, you just have to seek them out. And and we said everything else but like I said the the best thing you can do right now but I have learned is to get on LinkedIn and start doing your connections now. Whether is you're reaching out to your former buddies, or your former supervisors that we used to be in the military with start reaching out to them and ask them and say, Hey, what was your What was your issues? When you transition out? Can you give me any tips because that's what I'm about to getting out as well. And in one of the biggest issues I still have is that many do not have a plan. And my most recent, I was a transitional over over it for Stuart and I had five active duty soldiers, and not one of them had a plan, even though they were going to the tap classes, it wasn't taken. And I could say that they wouldn't take it very seriously. And I said, Alright, if you're not, if you don't have a plan, and then have a multiple plan, and then have opportunities in to your plan, then you need to rethink and stay in the military until you decide or until you have a plan of your transition. Because it's, again, when many think that they can just leave the military and join into the civilian workforce. They're very mistaken. So it's like said, it's it's a lot of a lot of opportunities. But then you have to really educate yourself research and educate is about the two main things I can say. And network, excuse me, that you can do to make yourself successful in the transition. Most definitely, John, and I think you hit the nail on the head right there when you talked about planning. And there was someone that once told me that when you fail to plan, you plan to fail. And I think that's number one in itself. And I want to jump over to avi Avi for this episode. Ben, do you have anything in summary that you'd like to put out there for the audience? You know, I don't think so I think John did a great job of summarizing and highlighting everything that we want to preach to people transitioning both in and out of the service. I think that John, you hit a lot of the key points, a lot of the points of confusion and ambiguity, especially for the younger people going in to the service. So just great episode today. And I highly recommend that everybody listening, take heed of John's advice over here. I appreciate anyone out there listening. Do you just serve George? Do you just serve Georgia? Or is there folks from all across the United States? Can they connect with you and ask you questions? And what's the best way for them to get ahold of you? I say the best way right now is through LinkedIn. I've increased my father. Like said in the last six months, I went from 200 followers to almost over 600. Now that I look, I think I was 609 when I looked at it. So I've had actually individual just reached out to me, her and her husband are getting ready to come off air force. So she was referred to me by another another person that was connected with me. And she was just asking some questions that my husband and I were planning on moving to Georgia. So yes, I we served the state of Georgia but then only so we have other people from coming from other states, if you're a transitional service member if you're going to another state, or if you're looking at going we'd like so we do have a lot of connections nationwide, through the other national board in reserve program. So I say personally like to say that regardless of where you live, I've had like set off had active duty from over in Germany, or in disaster, me questions and say just reached out and say, Hey, what do you think, you know, what should I do looking at it, but I would say as far as the state if you're a transitional service member, and I have to and I have to kind of be a little biased last to Georgia is one of the best. As far as in the veteran communities. We have over 700,000 veterans that live in our state. And it's it's growing by like 10% every year. And that's not including the spouses. So we're looking at like over a million between spouses and veterans, and that's not including the ones that serve on active duty or in our Guard Reserve. It's veterans to transition out and everything else like that. So we're a very heavy populated veteran state. So if you're looking for work, the chances are when I talked about 94% of those veteran of those organizations that do not have a veteran working form, their percentage goes a lot lower here in Georgia because like I said, with the the big veteran base, I mean, we have a lot of incentives for veterans to come to our state in work. So the state of Georgia thanks you for praising them so much. I know Georgia is a beautiful state in itself. And John, I just want to thank you for joining us today on the morning formation. As for Avi, John myself, formation is over, you can fall out. I want you to stay tuned, stay focused and stay motivated. Or yours all out.