The Morning Formation (TMF) Podcast

Resilience and Adaptability: John's Journey from Navy Corpsman to Law Enforcement

• KP • Season 3 • Episode 1

Share episode

What if resilience and adaptability were the keys to conquering life's toughest transitions? Join us for an illuminating conversation with John Jones, a Navy hospital corpsman turned Homeland Security federal law enforcement officer, whose inspiring career journey defies the odds. John opens up about his experiences from a high school graduate bravely facing deployment in Somalia, to overcoming medical retirements and reinventing himself as a financial literacy advocate. His story is a testament to the incredible power of preparation and flexibility in the face of life's inevitable challenges.

In this episode, we uncover the essential leadership traits that seamlessly transition from military to law enforcement careers. John discusses the critical importance of discipline, both physical and educational, and the unique value each subordinate brings to a team. We also examine the pitfalls of hierarchical organizations through the lens of the Peter Principle and explore the necessity of self-awareness and humility in effective leadership. Don't miss this enriching dialogue, packed with practical advice and encouragement for anyone in the military or law enforcement community. Connect with John to gain further insights and stay updated with his invaluable resources.


John's Website:
https://ahighercallingbook.com/


Order John's Book Here:
https://a.co/d/aWwrDiv


John's New Career May Help You:
https://www.magnoliawealth.com/

Support the show

Check out our website

Please Support & Donate to the Podcast: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/themorningform

USA Made socks with a Purpose. 20% off with code: TMF
https://www.solediersocks.com/tmf

Episode Powered By Act Now Education

Speaker 1:

This episode is powered by Act Now Education. Go to wwwactnoweducationcom for free comprehensive educational resources and opportunities for active duty veterans, military spouses and children. Warriors fall in. It's time for formation. It's been a while, but I'm very thankful today that I get an opportunity to sit with one of my good friends, john Jones. John has lived a very interesting life, starting out in the military and eventually transitioning into law enforcement.

Speaker 2:

John, thank you for giving me your time today. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

Thank you for having me. John is a fascinating interview and I wanted to bring him online today, mainly because he has a lot of experience in leadership and experiences both in the transition process between military and law enforcement, and I know a lot of folks today really struggle with understanding what they're getting into. So really struggle with understanding what they're getting into. So, uh, john, if you wouldn't mind, early in, uh, uh, upfront, just go ahead and tell us exactly where you started and where you ended up in your career.

Speaker 2:

Uh sure. So, uh, uh, graduated high school a year early, ended up going in the Navy at 17. I was a, uh hospital corpsman, so I was FMF. So I was a corpsman with the Marine Corps, deployed to Somalia with them, was in for just under seven years before being medically released and medically separated, which is not what I wanted to do, but ultimately ended up getting into civilian law enforcement, local law enforcement.

Speaker 2:

I was a deputy sheriff for Douglas County in Nebraska, which is where Omaha is, did that for about five and a half years, transitioned from there into federal law enforcement, started off with the VA police and then went into well, now that I'm retired but went from that into a highly sought after position that law enforcement with Homeland Security, and did that for about 14 years and then was actually medically retired from that recently. So two careers that I wanted to pursue full time till for retirement was ended up being medically retired from both. But you know not letting that keep you down ended up pivoting from that and now I actually have a book coming out in support of law enforcement. That'll be, that'll be released. Uh, memorial day weekend.

Speaker 2:

And then, uh, I also went and, even though I can't do law enforcement physically do law enforcement anymore. I still want to help people, don't want to be a, I don't want to fight people to do it. So I ended up transitioning and got my insurance license and financial rep and so that's what I'm doing now. I'm trying to help law enforcement local law enforcement, military, transitioning military understand the benefit of financial literacy early in life. The earlier you do it, the better off you're going to be.

Speaker 1:

Your whole life, your whole life has been basically a big transition. Man, you go from one thing to another thing. One thing, another thing, another thing, Uh yeah, so Now, when you were in the Navy, uh, when you were in the Navy, you were a corpsman, right? Yes, can you explain what?

Speaker 2:

that is. So a corpsman is an enlisted medical provider, very similar to the medics in the Army and the Air Force and Coast Guard and the Air Force and Coast Guard. You're providing medical services to military members and dependent family members. My very first assignment out of corpsman school was the Naval Hospital San Diego at Balboa and I was assigned to a pediatrics clinic. So I was actually helping dependent kids with. You know it was a clinic, so it wasn't. You know, inpatient services, so anything very similar to, like, you know, bringing your kids to a pediatrician.

Speaker 2:

Now, from there I transferred to what they call FMF, the fleet Marine force, so that's a voluntary job. And then you transition from like a clinical setting to more. You were in the army, so 68 whiskey combat medic, right, that's very similar to that. So if you've ever seen this movie saving private Ryan so if you've ever seen this movie Saving Private Ryan the medic in that movie, you know. Or more recently, even though I was not in special warfare of any kind American sniper, when individuals were injured, traumatic medicine in combat that's what I did.

Speaker 1:

Now, when you signed up for that, did you know what that was? Did you know what that? That's what I did. Now, when you signed, up for that?

Speaker 2:

did you know what that was? Did you know what that MOS was? I did I was actually I was a military nerd growing up. That's the very first time I walked into a recruiting office. I was seven years old. Seven years old, I was seven years old.

Speaker 2:

So I grew up with a very significant military-influenced family. My dad was Special Operations Marine in the 50s. I have an uncle who was Special Operations Marine in Vietnam. I have another uncle who did 27 years in the Navy, another uncle Air Force in Vietnam. So very heavily influenced military. Both of my grandfathers were World War II veterans, my maternal grandfather Bronze Star recipient from D-Day. So very heavily influenced military.

Speaker 2:

But that's why I wanted to go in the military. I wanted to do 20 years, wanted to retire from that. But to answer your question, I was in an org in a program that's very similar to like JROTC, but it was specifically with the Navy. It's called Sea, with NC Cadets. It's almost like a high school reserve program. You go one weekend a month, you do two-week trainings during the summer and you learn all of the customs and courtesies. But one of the things that you had access to was a lot of the job duties and assignments and responsibilities. So I got exposed to aviation jobs, shipboard jobs, the medical field, specialty jobs such as like air crew and submarine and those kinds of jobs.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, it sounds fascinating, man, you got exposed at a very early age. Now, when you transitioned out, did you know you wanted to be in law enforcement?

Speaker 2:

I actually I didn't know I wanted to be in law enforcement. Growing up, again, I one of my uncles, the Air Force vet from Vietnam ended up doing 40 plus years in law enforcement, doing 40 plus years in law enforcement, um, but I was raised in California, he was in Florida, um. So, and this was before the internet, so, um, before social media and stuff. So the influence was there, just not on a daily basis, um. But when I transitioned out of the military, I had two kids, had been divorced, so that's why I ended up in Omaha. That's where my kids were, and I knew that I wanted to continue my service. I knew that I wanted to do something that was going to help people and still provide a decent quality of life for my kids. So it was either law enforcement, firefighting, some kind of civil service like that. That's what I was thinking.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and back then to get into law enforcement you had to actually wait in line. I mean, I remember back in the 80s and 90s to get into law enforcement you had to apply, you had to try out, you had to compete. It was very competitive to get into it, unlike it is today. So when you decided to transition from local to federal, why did you make that decision?

Speaker 2:

Mainly because, um, there there were. There were things on the sheriff's department where I I saw the future. My trajectory on the sheriff's department um was going to be limited. Um, for instance, at that time there was no um SWAT teams, you know, special reaction team on the sheriff's department at that time. Um, there is now, ironically. But so the way that I started looking at the future and not just working and trying to get this next promotion or this next specialty position, but long-term, what can I do? That'll still do those things that will provide a good life and not have to work until you know. I saw some of the deputies that I've worked with were 65 years old, still working in the courthouse, escorting inmates, you know to and from court back from the courthouse to the jail, you know, in their mid to late sixties, and that I did not want to be doing that.

Speaker 1:

Oh yeah yeah, and you were no stranger to moving. So going national anywhere in the United States was comfortable for you, versus like someone that was born and raised in a specific county in a specific state. So I could see why it would be easy for you to step outside your boundaries with that, your boundaries with that and then throughout your entire career. In your opinion, what were the best type of key leadership qualities that you found to be most effective in both the military and law enforcement? Because a lot of times people who've never been in the military but are law enforcement a lot of times they'll say, well, this isn't the military, but I know that a lot of times those same qualities can be transitioned over to the law enforcement side. Can you talk a little bit about that For sure?

Speaker 2:

So those qualities that serve you well in the military, that will serve you well in law enforcement, civilian law enforcement. You know discipline in, you know your physical fitness, discipline in your education, discipline in knowing the job, your skills continuing your building, your skills outside of normal training hours. But really, the leadership portion, the best leaders I saw in the military and civilian law enforcement it was people who understood the value of their subordinates and were that buffer between senior management and the workforce. You still have a mission. Senior management gives you a mission that you have to do. But the best leaders understand that it's not just this is what we're told to do, go out, get it done, kind of thing. You have to do this regardless. The best leaders understand the nuances of the people working for them.

Speaker 1:

That's very true. A lot of times I know that when I was an officer and I would look at my lower listed folks, some of those folks were the most highly skilled at specific things, specific positions. So you have to respect that and I think that many times in specific branches, especially in war, you have to respect every rank right.

Speaker 1:

Correct. I guess it's the same thing in law enforcement where, whether it's the patrolman or the detective or wherever you stand, there's a really good chance that you're going to end up with a bullet in your back if you treat everyone like shit and you don't have that respect throughout the ranks.

Speaker 2:

Would you agree? Absolutely I agree. And one of the things I didn't really understand it in the military, but it was something I was exposed to in civilian law enforcement specifically. You're educated. Have you ever heard of the Peter principle? No, I haven't.

Speaker 1:

So the.

Speaker 2:

Peter principle. Some psychologist named Peter presented this and he said it primarily happens in military or paramilitary organizations. Military or paramilitary organizations, such as law enforcement, firefighters or, you know, government employees of some kind or or organizations that run on a hierarchy like that, like a contract group. But what what he said is you will find that people are promoted to their highest level of incompetence, meaning A. You know, a lot of people in civilian law enforcement will get promoted to like a sergeant level, right. But then they are incompetent at the sergeant level, so they will get promoted to the lieutenant level because that reduces the amount of people that they actually oversee. Then, the more incompetent they are at the lieutenant level, they'll get promoted to captain and so on and so forth.

Speaker 2:

Right now, does that mean that everybody that's a lieutenant or a captain or that level within a law enforcement organization is incompetent? No, that's not what it's saying. But when you see those bad leaders that Peter principle generally has been employed, right? So instead of getting rid of the leader at the lowest level and demoting them back from sergeant down and saying, hey, you didn't cut, you didn't meet the standard at this level, most productive thing for the workforce they just continue to promote that individual to a place where then they don't have any influence. And I'm sure you've seen that in the military and in law enforcement, where people get promoted into a position where they have nobody else to really have direct influence on, but they're higher rank, they have that rank or that you know role.

Speaker 1:

And I think it's really important for folks that are like that to know thyself and to humble thyself, because I think sometimes when those folks get pushed upwards because of their incompetence pushed upwards because of their incompetence I think that sometimes they look at that as a positive thing, even though they couldn't handle their last position. But I definitely agree with you on the Peter principle, because I have experienced folks like that as well In the military I worked, you know, majors, lieutenant colonels, colonels, and I'm like really like you don't even know the basics of like what I'm talking about here. How in the heck did you make it to where you're at right now in your rank and overall, john? So how would you say that? Your leadership style, how it evolved from your military service to your law enforcement career, how's that mature?

Speaker 2:

Well, that's really what it is. It's as you anybody you know does as they age. If you're able to take a look back and look at yourself and look at how you were in your late teens, early twenties, hopefully you're not the same in your mid twenties to late twenties, right? Hopefully you've matured and developed techniques and um evaluated yourself in your, the way that you approach people, um, and hopefully that's evolved Um. So, from you know, being you know.

Speaker 2:

What I will say, though, is just like you said, you can have young enlisted people or new officers in law enforcement who have been on in that job for less than two or three years, who are phenomenal leaders, right? Phenomenal leaders, right. Just because they haven't been in for a long time or haven't promoted high doesn't mean that they don't have the leadership or leadership capability. So, if you are new to law enforcement, you're newer in the military. Take those opportunities to exercise the leadership that you see around you. Don't wait for people to tell you to do it. Go out, you know. That's what I would recommend.

Speaker 2:

Don't be that person that's only doing it to try and get ahead. Be that person. You can do this from the time you're young to be that person that is trying to better the organization you're in, trying to better the organization. You're in specifically to better the organization. So I guess that's where it came Like I was doing things when I was younger, trying to get ahead, right so now, um, most everything that I do, um is specifically to try and better either the organization I'm in or, um the people that I work with, trying to better their financial situation or their, their position.

Speaker 1:

for them, nothing to do with me, right so, um, yeah, you've already paid your dues, you've got your retirement there and I feel like you're doing your current job now just to simply reach back and help others and educate others. I know we've had long conversations about that. Think are some of today's biggest issues with folks who are young adults, young professionals, looking to get into law enforcement or get in even into the military. What do you think there are? So many issues with recruiting, so many issues with just attrition and keeping people in, and what advice do you have for folks out there who might want to align themselves as a good candidate for either one?

Speaker 2:

uh well, so to kind of put it in perspective, I have six kids, you know. You know I have six kids. Three of them have been military right, um, and one that's not military is married to military right. So, um, I am of the mindset that military, law enforcement or just civil service in general firefighting, paramedic, anything like that phenomenal career fields the current um, the current opinion of law enforcement, military and those things is widely skewed from the reality and, again, unless you get into those fields, you're not going to understand the way it actually is compared to the perception of it in the wider media and sources out there. So if you are interested in those fields, any of those fields, I would highly encourage a younger person that wants to go into the military or into the law enforcement. If they're too young to get into law enforcement, because there is a minimum age requirement for almost every agency I've ever encountered if you're too young, do yourself the favor of going in the military.

Speaker 2:

The benefits of being in the military far outweigh the negative aspects of being in the military and you know as well as I do junior enlisted generally have a much harder time in the military than middle to senior enlisted or officer corps, middle to senior enlisted or officer corps, and that's one of the things I encouraged my kids specifically and anybody that I've encouraged to go in the military is don't judge the military based off your first four-year enlistment. Your first four-year enlistment is just it's going to be the hardest part of the military for several aspects. It's a new environment. It's going to be the hardest part of the military for several aspects. It's a new environment. It's a new lifestyle. You have the lowest rank, right, you have the least responsibility. Everybody that you meet is telling you what you need to do and how to do it and that sort of thing. Well, as you stay in the military, you earn that rank, you earn that responsibility, you perform well at your job and you start seeing a broader picture of what the military actually is right.

Speaker 2:

So that's, I would not judge the military based off your first four years. Same with law enforcement. Law enforcement is phenomenal but even still in the United States and I think the Western society as large law enforcement, the average law enforcement career is only seven years years. So, and that's injury, um, disability, but a large part of that is burnout and people leaving within the first five to seven years of their career because they didn't understand the larger, larger part of what law enforcement actually entails. So you know, like I said, law enforcement, military both very honorable professions that you are serving a greater purpose than yourself and still being able to provide a decent lifestyle for yourself and your family. So I would highly encourage it.

Speaker 1:

No doubt. I mean both of those career paths do require, early on specifically, a lot of blood, sweat and tears and separation. Whether you join the military, you've got to go to bootcamp in some form. You've got to go to some form of advanced training which is not going to be in your backyard. You're going to have to go out and meet folks from all over the United States. They're going to have to become your battle buddies.

Speaker 1:

So they may be from Vermont, montepeller, vermont, or they may be from the middle of Los Angeles, you don't know, and I think that's also the great thing about the military For sure, and law enforcement, you're going to have to go through some type of academy. That's going to be physically and mentally exhausting to some extent. But overall you're right. I mean I was talking to a Medal of Honor recipient and he told me that there's a difference between a job and a career where the career is more soul fulfilling, correct. A job just pays you amount of money. So I think there's something to definitely be said about that. I think you've had a great career and I'd love to have you on the podcast again to talk more in depth If anyone out there is interested in following you on any of your social media accounts or checking out your book coming out.

Speaker 2:

So Instagram John Benjamin Jones. Author. J-o-h-n-p-e-n-j-a-m-i-n-j-o-n-e-s. Author. Facebook and Instagram is just John Benjamin Jones. I'm in the process of developing a website, but once the book is released it should be available through all Amazon, all online providers and obviously, once I get the website set up, it'll be available there as well. But the book itself is called A Higher Calling A Biblical Guide for First Responders, military and Veterans. The book itself is called A Higher Calling A Biblical Guide for First Responders, military and Veterans. Encourage people to do this hard job of law enforcement and military and still understand that you're, you can do this job and you've been called to a higher purpose doing it. But, yeah, otherwise, if they, if they have any questions or want to get a hold of me, they can email John Jones, j-o-h-n, j-o-n-e-s. At financialguidecom and you know it doesn't have to be about, you know, finances or insurance or anything like that, but that's a business email account that they can reach out to me anytime.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, man, and I'll make sure that I put that all in the notes at the bottom of the YouTube and wherever else this is going to be seen, and I'll update it when your book does come out.

Speaker 2:

Anybody that's transitioning from the military that is listening to this. I'm sure if they're already listening to you, they're already familiar with the act now. But even if you transitioned out a long time ago, take advantage, go sign up for their intro, their Saturday thing that they got going on and start taking advantage of this stuff that's available for you. That act now is phenomenal.

Speaker 1:

So you've been on it, you've been checking it out.

Speaker 2:

I have, yeah, so my son is actually getting ready to transition out of the Army. So my son was a CB Navy. Cb Got out for a year, not what. So my son was a CB Navy. Cb got out for a year not what he thought it was going to be so he went to go back in the Navy. Was wasn't going to work out for him so he went in the army. So he's a staff sergeant in the army right now, um, and doing kind of doing the same thing. He's utilizing his military time and experience to transition into federal law enforcement, um, but, uh, I've encouraged my son, my daughter one, so I have five daughters.

Speaker 2:

One of my daughters was a navy corpsman, like I was, um encouraged her. Her husband was a marine, um. Another one of my daughters is is married to a cb. Encouraging him. You know I'm I'm. I live close to two military bases now since, since I left the, the california area, I moved to coastal mississippi. So I'm close to the cb base and I'm close to an air force base and anytime I'm out, you know, and engaging with people and find out that they were in the military, I'm pushing that stuff. Awesome. You know anybody like that, anybody that was in the military go out and take advantage of that stuff.

Speaker 1:

The best distro is by word of mouth, because you know, you personally know people that find those things valuable and that's the best way. So I appreciate you pushing that onto our law, or onto our young military folks as well, and even the veterans out there and for folks listening. Make sure you follow John on Instagram, check him out on his email as well. You, you know, shoot him a message if you, if you want, and then also make sure you follow up with wherever you're watching this, because I'll make sure that in the show notes of the podcast that I update where his book can be found. John, I just want to thank you for giving me your undivided attention today and the opportunity to sit down and have a good conversation with you it's always a pleasure talking with you, buddy as always, everyone out there listening.

Speaker 1:

Make sure you like, subscribe, follow, support on social media and, as always, I want you to stay tuned, stay focused and stay motivated. Warriors fall out.